Tonight, I made this little tutu. There’s nothing spectacular about it from the sewing perspective- just a quick little crafting project out of some snowflake-flocked sheer something or other that I’ve had in my stash for years, a little wire-edged taffeta ribbon, narrow elastic, and a quick half hour. In and of itself, it’s nothing that warrants a blog mention. In fact, I planned to hide it from you so you wouldn’t know that your most Selfish of Seamstresses had of her own volition decided not only to sew for someone else, but for a child (like a regular person but smaller and with an underdeveloped sense of indebtedness.) I had a moment of weakness. What do you want from me. She’s cute and she’s sweet and she loves ballet and she’s going to see the Nutcracker this weekend. And as a lifelong student of ballet (on and off these days), I couldn’t resist the urge to make a Waltz of the Snowflakes romantic tutu for her. What. WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT.
The reason I bring it up is that as I was starting this project, I needed to figure out how big to make the waist for a 5- to 6-year old girl. So, I went to McCall’s website and looked up the size chart for children. And this is what I found:
So, we’re looking at about 22″. Now, wait a sec, wait a sec, wait a sec. That number looks familiar. Hey! I know where I know that number from– that’s the waist measurement for the Misses’ size 4, the size I usually make… WHAT??? Here’s a chunk of the Misses’ size chart:
The smallest Misses’ size has the same waist measurement as that of a child described as “walking and not wearing diapers.” For context, there are still all the Girls’ sizes 7 to 16 in between the Children’s sizes and the Misses’ sizes. Now I know that kindergarteners may have little round pudgy bellies, but… they are not grown-up people size! This is scary! Do the pattern companies really expect that adults will have the same waist measurement as kids who are singing Itsy-Bitsy Spider??
Now, I cut size 4 when I make Big 4 patterns. But that’s based on the bust measurement, NOT the waist measurement. I have often puzzled over that number, because while I am certainly on the smaller end of the people spectrum, if we go purely by the measurement chart, my waist would probably fall somewhere in the 10 range. (Who ever heard of grading from a 4 bust to a 10 waist and back to a 4 hip??) And funnily enough, I pretty much never grade the waist up, because the size 4 patterns generally fit just fine in the waist when I make them up and all the wearing ease is factored in. Once I made a skirt and decided I’d err on the safe side by starting with a size 6 (still considerably smaller than my actual waist measurement according to the chart), and I ended up swimming in it.
This makes me wonder if the prescribed waist measurements for Misses’ sizes are just vanity numbers and in actuality the pattern companies KNOW that no one really has that waist measurement and don’t even draft the patterns for those body measurements. Maybe they always tell you to go by the bust measurements because it’s the hardest area to alter AND because they know the waist measurements as given are inaccurate? I can understand why companies do vanity sizing in terms of the size numbers, but wouldn’t they want to be super accurate about the actual body measurements? I know I don’t have a very defined waist, but the waist measurements surely must still be off if they expect a small woman to have the waist circumference of a child just a year or two past toddlerhood, no? Or is my waist just that unusually enormous in proportion to the rest of my body?
I’m sure there are some women out there who do indeed have teeny tiny 22″ waists. (And NO, for the record, we DON’T want to hear about it so don’t go posting comments like, “Well, I have a 22″ waist and I have no idea why because I eat anything I want all the time and everyone’s always like OMG how do you stay so skinny when you eat so much!” I have the power of DELETE which I will use in conjunction with EYE-ROLL.) My point is not that such people don’t exist. My point is rather that it is just bizarre that pattern companies use the same standard waist measurement for my grown-up pattern size as for children’s size 6. Oh, and for context, the size 10 Misses waist measurement (25″) is the same as the Girls’ size 10- roughly equal to that of a regular sized 10-year old girl. Eh?
The upside of this is that if all these charts are actually realistic, that little girl will probably be able to wear that snowflake tutu from Auntie Elaine well into her 30s. And she’d better because she owes me now.
41 comments
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December 8, 2009 at 11:49 pm
violet
That’s just bizarre. 24″ is pretty narrow, but it’s a believable waist measurement for young woman. But my daughter’s 4 and I find it hard to believe her waist is the same!
I love your blog by the way. I too, am a selfish seamstress (but a less slender one).
December 9, 2009 at 2:52 am
Jenni
I have only just found your blog, but I know of you through burdastyle!
I have to agree that measurements for patterns are strange and I never know what size to make and usually end up taking in heaps….
I recently had to measure one of my dance classes for costumes for our end of year concert and these kids are 5 – 7 yr olds. There were a couple in there that did have a waist measurement that was around the same as mine. *Please note I’m not saying I have a 22 inch waist – I bloody wish – actually no I don’t cause then I would look like a total freak! But yeah, I have come across a few littlies that do have those bigger measurements.
The skirt was really cute btw. I would have loved that to wear to ballet when I was little…
December 9, 2009 at 6:01 am
Peggy
I totally love your narcissistic side and style of writing! Your blog is great and fun to read!
The tutu is adorable! Little kids do have round tummies so their waist sizes are going to be fairly large and out of proportion to the rest of their bodies. Apparently, it’s a life long battle to achieve the perfect size! I gave up years ago! As a grandmother of six, I sew for the short and round and the taller and skinny — there is no perfect model at any age.
December 9, 2009 at 6:42 am
June
The waist number has always puzzled me. I am not on the small side but I am not plus size (anymore) either yet if I went by my waist measurement, the big 4 would put me in a size 24! Ridiculous. I cut bottoms based on him ad may or may not have to add a small amount to the waist but not much. Now, based on my bust size, I am a size 18 or so in the Big 4 so I go by the measurements on the tissue rather than the envelope. This works out much better for me and makes me feel good I am not nowhere near a size 18 or 24 :P
A 22 inch waist is just unfathomable to me.
December 9, 2009 at 7:12 am
mollymolly
I guess I’ve always just ignored the other measurments and went by the bust (I cut out a size 10 for Big 4 patterns) and usually never have to alter it, even though the rest of the measurements are never quite right.
Warping the size chart like that, I would think, would make many people feel worse about themselves. Like they’re some sort of abnormal freak, when in reality none (or very very few) of us actually fit into those ranges. (Just imagine, all those skinny women who think “oh this says it’s exactly my size!” and then once the dress is all sewn up it fits them horribly! haha at least we have that to keep us happy)
December 9, 2009 at 8:09 am
Cisa Barry
So.Freakin.Cute
Don’t you got getting all unselfish on us. The Unselfish Seamstress just seems far to sweet and non-snarky, and we can’t have that ;)
December 9, 2009 at 5:17 pm
selfishseamstress
Don’t worry :) It’s not like I secretly go home at night and stitch up piles and piles of footsie pajamas, overalls, and tutus for all the kids in my life. If I sew for children, it’s only in attempt to get them indebted to me at an age when they don’t really have the ability to turn down a tutu. I will collect on all of these with interest when I am old and they have means.
December 9, 2009 at 8:20 am
Beangirl
Ok, I’ll have to say that my kids are 5 and 6 and on the small end of the size scale (they’re in the 5th percentile for height, basically they’re midgets) and their waist measurements currently are 19″ and 22″. Saying that, I also think that when the Big4 patterns companies grade their sizes, they start with a size 10 at a “standard” measurement. Then they just add or subtract inches incrementally. I’m pretty sure none of their measurements have anything to do with actual people. It’s just all theoretical and you have to slog your way through the morrass of sizing on your own.
Now I remember why I hate sewing clothes for myself. Sewing for kids (I know, I know, BLASPHEMY!) is so much easier to deal with. See? I’m SELFISHLY sewing for the kids. Whew. I feel so much better about that now. I was worried I was getting to be too selfless.
December 9, 2009 at 5:19 pm
selfishseamstress
Wow. You blew my mind with that logic. As long as you’re not sewing for other people who ask them to make stuff for their kids, I won’t lecture :)
December 9, 2009 at 9:35 am
amber
So many comments:
* That tutu is adorable! I have plans to make one for my CWs daughter… that is, if I can stop sewing last minute projects for myself.
* I have done quite a bit of sewing for babies and toddlers this year [I know, I know, you’re horrified, but I justify it by saying it was good practice for my basic sewing skills and it made me look damn awesome at the baby showers. ;)] and I have been shocked by the waist measurements my friends have given me for their 1 and 2 yo girls. I guess those pudgy little bellies do get in the way a bit.
* Speaking of pattern sizing, I swear, I’m still having the biggest headaches over figuring out my size from the finished measurement charts. Either I’m measuring myself funny (really, with the amount of science classes I’ve taken, I sure in the hell hope that is not the issue) or the pattern measurements are off. Ugh. The only upside is that I’m getting really good at taking things in. ::eyeroll::
December 9, 2009 at 10:30 am
Shams
Very cute.
I have a 22″ thigh.
December 9, 2009 at 10:45 am
cidell
You know, when I was 23 and in my aunt’s wedding, I had a 24 inch waist. I also remember reading how Scarlett O’Hara had a 17 inch waist and thought I must be fat. Lordy. I was an idiot. (I will roll my eyes for you and throw in a black girl sucking of teeth).
I have no answer to your question. But think measurements are a crock anyway.
December 9, 2009 at 5:21 pm
selfishseamstress
Sigh. Surely we were all idiots in our slim youth. At the age of 17 I was an 86-pound ballet student and I still worried that my flat chest made me look like my belly was tubby. *rolls eyes at self*
December 9, 2009 at 11:22 am
Pavlina
Har har har. I always wondered about the waist measurement as well. I was always like, “that’s strange, this skirt isn’t too tight at the waist” I see others have also run into this problem and that makes me happy:) Tee hee hee.
Ah, being selfish. Lovely. I’m not terribly selfish, I sew for my daughter. I like girly things. Every now and then I make something for my son, but it just isn’t fun unless I am making him a costume. My husband? Never! I mean, most boys and men (by most, I mean the two that live in my house) don’t even care WHAT they wear. Why should I waste my valuable time sewing them garments when I can just go buy something, then have all that lovely time to sew for me?
December 9, 2009 at 11:33 am
Trudy
I love the tutu. And am going to unselfishly whip one up for a 4-year old post haste only because it will be easy. And by the way, I spent my youth pondering Scarlett’s 17″ waist. Later, it dawned on me that that was AFTER the corset was applied. (See GTWTW) I also LOVE and appreciate your blog; the writing is terrific and the content too. When do you have time to work?
December 9, 2009 at 11:45 am
Sandra
I wear a size 4.5 in women’s shoes, but a 2.5 in childrens. Riddle me that.
December 9, 2009 at 5:22 pm
selfishseamstress
Yay! I wear a size 4.5 too! Usually a 5 because 4.5 is sooo hard to find, but 4.5 fits better. w00t tiny feet!
December 9, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Hatty
OK, but there can be something kind of logical about that waist measurement that does not vary much as one enters adolescence/adulthood. Adolescence for women expands your pelvis and your breasts, but has no real effect on your abdomen so your waist measurement may stay constant if you don’t grow in height much. Of course if your height increases and your overall skeletal size increases your waist size will expand some, but not as much as the rest of you does. As long as you stay slim. If not, your waist may be where you put on weight first, or it may be your tush, depends on your genes (and age). And other factors, including diet.
Here in Turkey (crossroads of two continents), they have a joke. If a baby (but this can also be used of anyone) is very big, they say “Oh, s/he’s European-standard size” and if s/he is small, they say “Oh, Asian-standard size.” Neither is better, just different. But all our variation must make it impossible for pattern companies to come up with a handful of sizes that will suit the majority. Hence, we all have to learn to fit our patterns.
Here in Turkey I keep it secret that I sew – no such thing as open selfishness here – I would be a complete social pariah if I admitted to it. The strategy if anyone finds out is to keep promising to make them something but never actually do it. That’s acceptable. No one loses face!
December 9, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Mary in FL
I love your blog. I am so glad I subscribed to your RSS feed. Keep up the snarkyness.
December 9, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Ellen
I read this post with interest as I’m about to make a tutu for a 5 year old and wondered about the waist measurement. And because of your blog, and a few others, I’ve decided I should start making clothes for myself again. With those wacky size charts, now I’m just scared! The whole size thing with the big 4 was what turned me off clothes-making in the first place.
December 9, 2009 at 6:32 pm
angie.a
haha! I love when beangirl whips out the big words like “morass”. And the size charts for women are just idiotic. I have a 12 y/o daughter and her waist measurement has put her into adult pattern sizes (and children’s too, overlapping) for 3 or 4 years. And she’s completely normal sized (for a 12 y/o). The shoe thing though, she has always gotten a kick out of. The child has big feet (big feet, big heart?) and she has been able to crossover into women’s shoes for years. This made for fun dressup shoe shopping!
December 10, 2009 at 11:50 am
beangirl
It would be more impressive if Beangirl could actually spell the big words like “morass”, no?
December 9, 2009 at 8:04 pm
Sandra
Ha! Yep, small asian feet, right here. Size 4.5 shoes are IMPOSSIBLE to find. I recently learned that more expensive shoes fit better, and man, I wish I’d never learned THAT. For the record, Ferragamos run snug, and a size 5 fits beautifully.
December 9, 2009 at 10:49 pm
selfishseamstress
Oooh, good tip on the Ferragamos. Another tip for you– Nordstrom Rack! They are the tiny shoe mecca (they even have size 4 which are actually too small for me!) I must have a half dozen pairs of Michael Kors and Miss Sixty that I got there in sizes 4.5 and 5, each for about $49 a pop. You can’t get shoes at Bakers for that cheap anymore!
December 23, 2009 at 9:04 am
amber
I’d like to echo the Ferragamo sentiments. I have a 9.5AA foot – finding cute shoes in that size is like pulling teeth. The AA width Ferragamos are like a dream come true… much to my husband’s disappointment. ;)
December 10, 2009 at 9:49 am
Busy week, more covet, more travel « The Selfish Seamstress
[…] it’s been a busy week here, and I haven’t gotten much sewing done here other than the tutu I mentioned yesterday. Just a quick update. I had a little IM conversation with the intended tutu recipient and her […]
December 11, 2009 at 10:46 am
Karin
Hi there, I just found your blog. Fantastic post.
I find that Hotpatterns measurements are right on the money and so are Onion patterns. This gives me a sporting chance to tweak the pattern without having to make a muslin which I appreciate.
I haven’t tried a big 4 pattern since I was a teenager (After 20 years of no sewing, I just got a sewing machine to make some curtains last year, how boring.) I was afraid to try a big 4 pattern given the waist measurements. Now I feel bolder having read your post.
Has anyone tried Burda patterns? Are their measurements accurate?
December 11, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Karin
Burda patterns (at least Burdastyle, but I’d guess they’re the same since it’s the same company) run one size big according to my experience. But then, some (only few though, it seems) can actually pick the right size by comparing their measurements to the Burda charts.
I’m normally a size 34, according to the Burda charts I’m a 36 but I will choose size 34 next time, I’m tired of taking in (and making clothes that look like potato-sacks on me).
Make a simple toile/muslin first I’d say!
Bte, pretty name ;-)
December 11, 2009 at 12:15 pm
The Slapdash Sewist
The pattern-sizing and ease-adding ways of the Big 4 are mystifying and annoying. But I’m glad to hear that I am not a freak in having a waist sized larger than my bust, even though I have an actual waist (most of the time).
I sew a little for my niece. But mostly skirts I already made for myself turned into dresses for her, so it doesn’t really count.
December 11, 2009 at 9:11 pm
PatternJunkie
Count me in as someone who’s baffled by the Big 4 and their waist measurements. I’m always swimming in my skirt waists if I don’t do careful measuring, even if i try to compensate by sizing down!
December 12, 2009 at 1:14 pm
yarngoddess
Hello? The only pattern measurements you need to look at when choosing the “kind” of pattern to use (adult or child) is the neck to waist length. Did you notice the differences in the charts above? I made a sleeveless sundress for my granddaughter based on her tubby little tummy and the armpits fall halfway down to her waist. She can only wear it as a jumper over a turtleneck. But it has a twirly skirt so there is no getting it off her even for laundry day.
Children are simply adults that have not yet telescoped to their natural length. Hat and belt sizes are pretty much constant from birth to voting age. The inseam measurement is the one that really changes the most.
:Diane
December 12, 2009 at 11:34 pm
selfishseamstress
Haha– that’s good to know, but I NEVER have any problem deciding whether i should pick a size 6 Children’s pattern or a size 4 Misses’ pattern for myself! The Selfish Seamstress is baffled by many things, but she certainly knows that she is longer than a kindergartener! :)
December 15, 2009 at 7:38 am
Emilee
The Big 4 patterns are HUGE on children. I’m always making a size 3 (length 6 or 7) for my 6-1/2 year old. Granted, she’s a string bean, but even when I sew for other people’s kids, the printed sizes will not actually fit a child of that age. But with an elastic waist tutu (which is darling, and should get you great points with the 5-year-old), you should be fine.
January 2, 2010 at 6:54 pm
Deborah
I’ve assumed for years that the manufacturers are simply factoring in Old Lady Ease on their patterns, hence the tiny body measurements and the massive finished product. I usually start with the finished garment measurement and work backward, so I have a better idea of what I’m getting myself into. And I agree with a couple of other commentors: kids’ patterns are generally HUGE! I miss Style patterns–remember them? Best kids’ patterns ever, ever. And they are no more. Lost 1000+ of my vintage patterns in the Great Atlanta Flood of 09, and couldn’t be more bummed!
January 30, 2010 at 3:51 pm
Free pattern: Ballet skirt for grownups « The Selfish Seamstress
[…] Also, the privilege of wearing a long skirt is often reserved for the teacher herself. Unlike a ballet skirt for little kids, it can’t be ruffly or gathered or elastic waist. For the Selfish Seamstress, the classic […]
May 14, 2010 at 2:39 pm
Colette for the gamine? « The Selfish Seamstress
[…] Vogue or McCall’s is Selfish Seamstress-sized 29.5″ (don’t even get me started on the Big 4 waist measurement BS), a full whopping 3.5″ smaller than Colette, so we’re potentially looking at a very […]
May 20, 2010 at 9:34 am
JulesM
So glad you posted on this. Always felt bad that I did not have such a tiny waist to match the other measurements! My own experience when making a Big 4 pants or skirt is that the waistbands are true to the measurements stated for body measurements, so I always have to grade out to a larger waist size. I generally go by the flat pattern measurements and determine how much ease I want for that garment instead of going by a size, because some patterns have way too much ease. I do know from my mom that in the old days (1940s-60s), people and their waists were smaller. My mom had a 22″ waist in the late 50s, but the rest of her was tiny, too, and in the days before vanity sizing, that made her a size 10 in RTW. So maybe the companies haven’t changed their measurements since those days, when people were actually smaller in both the x and y directions. Interesting bit about the children’s measurements.
July 22, 2010 at 10:55 pm
amber
Hi,
I have a degree in Fashion Design. We were taught that the companies that mass produce clothing in the stores have reduced the sizes over the years, like past 30+years. They did this so the consumer would feel good about wearing that particular small size from that company. It caught on and was famous among all Manufacturers. However the pattern companies have not changed and are still making patterns the same size as always.
I have worked for several junior & adult clothing companies and worked with the standard “Manufacturer” sized patterns. Now I’m starting my own baby&kids clothing and struggling with the sizes as I’m trying to use store bought patterns to build my block patterns. It’s time consuming to trail them down. I randomly found this site as I was searching for the actual size of a 5 yr old as my skirt came out huge, and I thought the exact same thing! No way can a kid be that big in the waist!
Hope to have the line completed by the end of the year. Thanks!
Amber @ Ballistic Babies.com
March 4, 2011 at 8:36 pm
Caroline
If using Big 4 patterns, you have to size from the final finished measurements to figure out how much ease they added to those body measurements. Use the finished garment measurements to cut the correct size. The finished garment measurements are on the pattern pieces. If you’re making a skirt, for instance, there will be a hip and waist measurement printed on the pattern pieces BUT it may be hard to find it, hence why beginner sewers miss it. They don’t mention this at all in the instructions which is lousy. Sometimes, I go down a size because they’ve added SO much ease. It also depends on personal tastes in whether you want it more fitted or less fitted/baggy. I don’t really have a problem with sewing with Big 4 or fitting once I figured this out.
March 9, 2013 at 4:28 am
nicola
Waist measurements don’t increase with age half as much as the chest and hips. So while a baby might have a 20″ waist and 20″ hips, a full grown woman might still only have a 26″ waist but 36″ hips. There is a much bigger change in hip size than waist size. I’ve probably got the same waist circumference I had a 12, but my hips are certainly a lot bigger lol. Another point to add is that the misses size chart posted has some of the smallest measurements I have ever seen! Maybe it’s vintage sizing, but still, a 29.5″ bust and 31.5″ on an adult woman of average height? That can’t be right.
April 26, 2013 at 10:10 pm
Jilly
I love this little tutu pattern, I made something similar for my daughters ballet school, but yours is much cuter. Love the two tiers and the bow.
Getting to the subject of waists. Years ago when my first child was a toddler she had the most adorable little sailor outfit. I loved the skirt (a navy permanent pleat) I can’t remember the size but she was aound 2-3 years old (i think, it was 20 years ago) On day I looked at held it up to me and then i thought this could fit me, so I tried it on and it fit! It looked ridiculous because of the length. The only conclusion I could come up with was that our waists must be about the same size all our lives, just our hips and top torso gets wider. My daughter was quite chubby when she was a bub and I am quite small. Even so it was really freaky.
P.s I was wondering if you have a McCalls 7990, 7991 pattern(this pattern is discontinued). If you do, would you consider sharing? I would pay for
photocopy or tracing of this pattern or any thing similar. My daughter is a ballet student and desperately wants a ballet tutu. So I looked on ebay and similar sites for proffessional looking tutu pattern. Wow they were asking $100 and up for this pattern. Unfortunately I can’t afford this. Thanks for your time, If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.